![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png){kind=small}
alias_sqbr(separated out as a tangent from Old school fandom: Can we fix it?)
There's a difference between "here are some flaws in X group"/"Here are some awesome things about my group" (both of which are valid) and "Let's think about the differences between X and my group. Well.. X has all these flaws. And my group is awesome. Because we are awesome people, and they are flawed people (apart from the ones who eventually realise how awesome we are and change sides)."
There is a jump from "there is an undertone of misogyny to some slash"/"There is an undertone of homophobia to some non-slashers behaviour" to "slashers are misogynistic"/"non-slashers are homophobic" to "If you really cared you'd write (fem)slash"(*).
One of things which made me feel excluded from fanfic fandom for years was this attitude that "A lot of fanfic works this way"->"This is What Fanfic Is"->"Everything that is not This sucks and is probably written and enjoyed by misogynistic and/or dull men". Yes, a lot of fanfic takes canon characters and puts them into a romance, but that doesn't mean that I'm Missing The Point of fanfic if I take the setting and write gen about some original characters. And the fact that male dominated fandom tends to be sexist and dismissive of fanfic doesn't mean there's a direct correlation between having tastes in line with conventional fandom and being sexist/narrowminded. Acting this way means female fans with "male" tastes get treated badly in both fandoms.
I'm not sure I've ever seen any "Let's compare stuff from fanfic fandom to equivalent stuff made by people outside" meta that didn't spend every second paragraph talking about how much more awesome and creative and feminist and postmodern "our" stuff is.
One of the things about online fandom (especially on lj) is it's much bigger and more finely delineated which makes it easier to avoid really obnoxious people and create your own space but also makes it easy forget that your like-minded friendslist is not all there is to fandom. When I see a comment like Ursula LeGuin fans could demonstrate a little of the progressive social values of Stargate:Atlantis fans I have to wonder if they count all the fans in mainstream male dominated fandom who think Teyla is hot and enjoy the explosions or whatever. And if they don't count, why don't I get to redefine "Ursula LeGuin" fans the same way? (And here I start shading into my next post :))
nb: I realise one of things fanfic meta does is tend to focus exclusively on fanfic (and specifically, boyslash) to the exclusion of other sorts of fannish creativity and I've kind of done that here. I guess I can't break out of the very mindset I'm criticising!
(*)These arguments annoyed me a lot less once I wrote some femslash, since now I'm one irrational-smug-moral-superiority level above the smug m/m slash writers :)
There's a difference between "here are some flaws in X group"/"Here are some awesome things about my group" (both of which are valid) and "Let's think about the differences between X and my group. Well.. X has all these flaws. And my group is awesome. Because we are awesome people, and they are flawed people (apart from the ones who eventually realise how awesome we are and change sides)."
There is a jump from "there is an undertone of misogyny to some slash"/"There is an undertone of homophobia to some non-slashers behaviour" to "slashers are misogynistic"/"non-slashers are homophobic" to "If you really cared you'd write (fem)slash"(*).
One of things which made me feel excluded from fanfic fandom for years was this attitude that "A lot of fanfic works this way"->"This is What Fanfic Is"->"Everything that is not This sucks and is probably written and enjoyed by misogynistic and/or dull men". Yes, a lot of fanfic takes canon characters and puts them into a romance, but that doesn't mean that I'm Missing The Point of fanfic if I take the setting and write gen about some original characters. And the fact that male dominated fandom tends to be sexist and dismissive of fanfic doesn't mean there's a direct correlation between having tastes in line with conventional fandom and being sexist/narrowminded. Acting this way means female fans with "male" tastes get treated badly in both fandoms.
I'm not sure I've ever seen any "Let's compare stuff from fanfic fandom to equivalent stuff made by people outside" meta that didn't spend every second paragraph talking about how much more awesome and creative and feminist and postmodern "our" stuff is.
One of the things about online fandom (especially on lj) is it's much bigger and more finely delineated which makes it easier to avoid really obnoxious people and create your own space but also makes it easy forget that your like-minded friendslist is not all there is to fandom. When I see a comment like Ursula LeGuin fans could demonstrate a little of the progressive social values of Stargate:Atlantis fans I have to wonder if they count all the fans in mainstream male dominated fandom who think Teyla is hot and enjoy the explosions or whatever. And if they don't count, why don't I get to redefine "Ursula LeGuin" fans the same way? (And here I start shading into my next post :))
nb: I realise one of things fanfic meta does is tend to focus exclusively on fanfic (and specifically, boyslash) to the exclusion of other sorts of fannish creativity and I've kind of done that here. I guess I can't break out of the very mindset I'm criticising!
(*)These arguments annoyed me a lot less once I wrote some femslash, since now I'm one irrational-smug-moral-superiority level above the smug m/m slash writers :)
![[identity profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/openid.png){kind=small}
trans issues
Date: 2009-06-12 06:27 am (UTC)And also it occurs to me that I find the photos of Thomas Beattie while pregnant to be beautiful and natural, and it actually requires me to pay attention to notice just how much revulsion and look-at-the-freak-show there is in most of what's been written about him, because I just see him there and it all makes sense to me.
And the men I've cared about most have all been bisexual or capable of setting off my gaydar (my husband when he's really dressed up to express his personality sets off my gaydar strongly - I keep thinking I should write to Rudd and explain to him that whatever he's trying to prevent by not allowing same-sex marriage, it isn't working already) and I had a gay friend for a while who thought it was a real shame I'm female because he could really have gone for me otherwise and I'm flattered and honoured and I get what he meant exactly.
And the first time I went to a place the toilets were maked "men" and "ladies" I felt genuine confusion, genuine "they didn't think of me", and now I feel like I just have to shrug and go into the "ladies" but dammit That's Not Me.
I had a jokey self-description for a while which is possibly offensive to trans people, that I'm a gay man in a woman's body who has chosen not to transition because I think I can do more damage to social stereotypes as a woman than as a gay man.
And anyway, I'm very confused about the transgender thing. I don't think I'm the thing described by "real" transgender people, but I'm not convinced I'm what they describe as cisgender either. Not that I don't deny I get cisgender privilege, but that's been hard for me to accept because like I said, I think the humanity of transgender is so obvious I can miss the social lack of acceptance.
Re: trans issues
Date: 2009-06-13 06:11 am (UTC)I also want to make it clear (to you but also to any trans men who might come across this) that I don't find the idea of trans men, women with broad shoulders, "female" bodies gaining broader shoulders etc at all horrifying or wrong in general. As long as it's not my body. (It is I suppose an example of the same general principle as "I think Sophia is a perfectly nice name, but it's not my name")
I have certain masculine/ungendered aspects to my identity myself which is why I found the sudden awareness of my own cis-femaleness so jarring. I think it can be difficult when you're in the grey area, where you're still in the privileged group but have some things in common with the less privileged one, and want to explore those differences and similarities without being appropriative. I'd say I'm more unambiguously cisgendered than you, but while I'm straight there are fuzzy edges to my sexuality I have trouble figuring out and I'm never sure how to do that without stepping on the toes of actual biexuals etc.
This isn't something I know much about and may not be helpful, but: reading your description I am reminded of what little I know about the idea of being genderqueer, which may give you another way to think about it without feeling like you're stepping on the toes of trans people.