Let Me Tell You About Homestuck (negative)
Jul. 1st, 2021 04:07 pm![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png){kind=small}
alias_sqbrA summary of this SarahZ video about the TERRIBLE behaviour of the people who run Homestuck. You don't need to know anything about Homestuck to understand this post.
To paraphrase SarahZ, the company harasses and dismisses anyone who critiques them as 'poisoned', despite having openly admitted to some serious fuckups.
And watching Andrew Hussie(42) interact with SarahZ(23), I see a practiced combination of intimidation, condescending flattery, and the promise of secret insider knowledge trying to leverage Hussie's power as a loved, respected, and powerful creator talking to what they see as a weaker, star-struck, easily influenced female fan. Looking back on everything I know of Homestuck, it's clear Hussie has used this schtick successfully for a decade to mistreat, silence, and control those around them, and it's only really coming to light now.
I am too tired to go back and double check the timeline here, I probably got some details wrong.
Summary of Context:
Homestuck was/is a very popular webcomic created by Andrew Hussie (who identified as a cis man until recently, their gender and pronouns are currently unclear but plausibly non-binary and they/them) The 'What Pumpkin' company was created to deal with all the merch, spinoffs, etc.
Though Hussie was 30+ at the time, Homestuck was very popular with women and queer people in their teens and early 20s. The comic and it's merch store etc started incorporating more and more work by creative fans. They always got paid and full credit so it seemed like a nice way to promote upcoming young creators.
This culminated in a Kickstarter for a Homestuck game, Hiveswap, made by a large creative team, along with a company called The Odd Gentlemen/TOG. This successfully raised TWO MILLION DOLLARS.
And then the TOG deal fell through, with rumours that TOG basically stole a chunk of money for no work. The game Hiveswap was now being made by What Pumpkin. After years of little information, we have two parts of what's supposed to be four, and no real idea exactly what went wrong. Also, the main Homestuck comic has finished and Hussie leaves most of the creative work on the spinoffs etc to other people.
Video One:
So! Enter Sarah Z, a very popular youtuber who talks about fannish topics. Her persona is one of bubbly enthusiasm and careful fairmindedness but she can be pretty subjective and arrogant, and she does not back down from a fight.
SarahZ: Hi this is a video about Homestuck! *starts rambling about how much she loved the comic and had fun in the fandom*
Me: This is boring and extrapolates from her personal experience to the whole of fandom, pass.
SarahZ: So I got legal threats from What Pumpkin for linking to this post by Gio about the supposed work issues at Hiveswap.
Me: Huh ok apparently the video did have some interesting content! *sees a disclaimer at the bottom that Gio's post may have been based on false information from a biased anonymous source*
Gio's post:
Hussie was an uncommunicative, childish, mercurial nightmare to work for, which is why things fell through with TOG. Specifically, Hussie got TOG to do uncredited work on the Homestuck comic, then got angry when they didn't have time to also finish the game.
Once What Pumpkin took over, upper management told the first What Pumpkin team, working in 3D, that everything was doing great, then fired them with no warning or severance because 'there was no money'. The 3D team's work was re-used by the new 2D team with no credit, and people were not rehired, leaving a largely female group of game devs suddenly unemployed in an harsh economy with nothing to show for it.
There are also other issues with lack of crediting, and lack of financial transparency. People were pressured into overwork based on their love of the comic but given little guidance, and then they or their work was dropped without warning based on Hussie's whims.
Me: Ouch. Some of this has compelling evidence, and the rest sounds plausibly true. But maybe Gio and/or SarahZ is blowing things out of proportion.
And then today. Cam linked me SarahZ's next Homestuck video. And it was NOT BORING AT ALL.
Video Two:
SarahZ: So after making that video, I got vague legal threats from What Pumpkin, and vague unsourced claims about one of Gio's sources being dodgy, so I added the disclaimer. What Pumpkin put out their first kickstarter update in months, saying The Odd Gentlemen did do uncredited work on the end of Homestuck, but didn't want credit so it's ok. Given that this all happened in 2016 I assume the post was a result of my video.
What Pumpkin President Cindy to SarahZ's boss: TAKE DOWN YOUR MISINFORMATION OR WE WILL SUE. Our company has already expended a massive amount of resources that could cost us THOUSANDS OF DOLLARS dealing with the huge negative backlash due to her spreading the malicious rumours created by a stalker (Gio) and a known liar (his source).
SarahZ's boss: What misinformation? Sarah said Gio said some negative stuff about What Pumpkin but that she couldn't be sure if it was true. And Gio did say that, and we have no evidence that what he was said untrue.
*clip of SarahZ in the first video adding a billion disclaimers about the importance of taking anonymous sources with a grain of salt*
Andrew Hussie: Hi! I'm sorry Cindy was so angry, we're just all so hurt here because we want to move past bad behaviour of people who don't even work for the company any more instead of dredging up old drama. I haven't watched your video, but you seem like a talented young journalist who cares about Homestuck and the truth, if you talk to me I can tell you cool secret facts!
SarahZ: Thanks? So, what of what I said was untrue? It looks like Gio was at least right about TOG doing uncredited work on the comic, and that you only told people because of my video.
Andrew Hussie: Yes but Gio's a weird stalker who keeps investigating our company. And until now we didn't think anyone cared. But now the drama hounds want the drama, so we posted something we'd prepared just in case.
(SarahZ to the viewer: Gio runs a general gaming blog with 2 Homestuck posts, and I have seen no evidence of him stalking individual people)
SarahZ: You mean the kickstarter backers want to know what happened to the two million dollars they gave you, and Cindy lied about it being a huge drain of resources possibly costing thousands of dollars. I see. I have since spoken to more employees and they agree with Gio that you fired the 3D team on short notice, how do you respond?
Andrew Hussie: Well, first I'll need assurances that you are sensible enough to know when it's important to sidestep the facts. Then I can tell you SECRETS.
SarahZ: I will respect people's privacy but otherwise use my own judgement. So, do you want to tell me your side or should I just make my follow up video based on all the accounts I have from disgruntled ex-employees? :)
Andrew Hussie: *cough* Well the truth is...we had to close the 3D branch suddenly due to [redacted]'s toxic behaviour, and didn't want to cause drama by publicising it.
SarahZ: If what you're saying is true that sounds pretty bad. But what about all the other disgruntled ex-employees? And what specifically did I say that is untrue, rather than just "true and sounds bad but there was context".
Andrew Hussie: [REDACTED] BRAINWASHED THEM. The majority of the ex-employees all got brainwashed by [redacted], he made the company shut down with toxic behaviour then went around spreading malicious lies (note: [redacted] is not the same as Gio's source, also supposedly a toxic ex-employee spreading malicious lies) and only a minority of them still remember the way things actually happened.
BRAINWASHED. I SEE.
SarahZ: What about the claims you didn't give people credit?
Andrew Hussie: DID [ALICE] TELL YOU THAT? See what happened with her is maybe we used a LITTLE bit of her art but when she emailed us asking for credit we noticed she'd WRITTEN A BLOG POST NON-SPECIFICALLY COMPLAINING ABOUT BEING FIRED WITH NO NOTICE, so we knew she'd been POISONED. I can understand why things looked bad from her perspective but...she once drew porn of what might have been a minor, maybe! So it was totally justified to send her legal threats when she asked for credit!
SarahZ, several weeks and tens of thousands of words of emails later: But what of what I said was actually untrue.
Andrew Hussie: The short answer is I don't know yet because I still haven't gotten around to watching your video.
I JUST. I CANNOT.
And then he did watch it and still had no actual misinformation to correct, just 'poisoned perspectives' on things he admitted were true, and she was DONE.
Cindy: I'm sorry I was overly rude before. But I was VERY UPSET because you kept spreading all those MALICIOUS LIES. Andrew has told me you have been trusted with secrets noone else knows so hopefully you understand the situation now.
SarahZ: Lol. Sure do.
SarahZ: Fortunately, that's the last of my correspondence with What Pumpkin. I made my first video having a not that positive but not that negative perspective on what Pumpkin the company but still loving Homestuck. A month and a half later I'm frustrated that the company was able to carry on for so long at all.
And so, who knows what happens next for the company. At this point, you'd be better off learning to code and making your own version of Hiveswap act 3. Which brings me my sponsor, Brilliant, a great website for-
THE END
Like...I'm really glad it was SarahZ in particular that this happened with. Her having such a bubbly, girly, yet chill persona while actually being stubborn, intelligent, combative and a little mean, means they vastly underestimated her willingness and ability to stand up to these silencing techniques and make What Pumpkin and Andrew Hussie look terrible on a very large public stage.
Also, I couldn't find a good way to get it across, but there's a few times where Cindy and Hussie make vague references to like, Sarah being a Hurtful Cis Woman, and Gio making women uncomfortable, but it seems to entirely be based on the fact that a lot of the employees are women/trans and they don't like seeing the company insulted. Which, yes, does hurt the feelings of some (trans) women, but, uh... yeah.
To paraphrase SarahZ, the company harasses and dismisses anyone who critiques them as 'poisoned', despite having openly admitted to some serious fuckups.
And watching Andrew Hussie(42) interact with SarahZ(23), I see a practiced combination of intimidation, condescending flattery, and the promise of secret insider knowledge trying to leverage Hussie's power as a loved, respected, and powerful creator talking to what they see as a weaker, star-struck, easily influenced female fan. Looking back on everything I know of Homestuck, it's clear Hussie has used this schtick successfully for a decade to mistreat, silence, and control those around them, and it's only really coming to light now.
I am too tired to go back and double check the timeline here, I probably got some details wrong.
Summary of Context:
Homestuck was/is a very popular webcomic created by Andrew Hussie (who identified as a cis man until recently, their gender and pronouns are currently unclear but plausibly non-binary and they/them) The 'What Pumpkin' company was created to deal with all the merch, spinoffs, etc.
Though Hussie was 30+ at the time, Homestuck was very popular with women and queer people in their teens and early 20s. The comic and it's merch store etc started incorporating more and more work by creative fans. They always got paid and full credit so it seemed like a nice way to promote upcoming young creators.
This culminated in a Kickstarter for a Homestuck game, Hiveswap, made by a large creative team, along with a company called The Odd Gentlemen/TOG. This successfully raised TWO MILLION DOLLARS.
And then the TOG deal fell through, with rumours that TOG basically stole a chunk of money for no work. The game Hiveswap was now being made by What Pumpkin. After years of little information, we have two parts of what's supposed to be four, and no real idea exactly what went wrong. Also, the main Homestuck comic has finished and Hussie leaves most of the creative work on the spinoffs etc to other people.
Video One:
So! Enter Sarah Z, a very popular youtuber who talks about fannish topics. Her persona is one of bubbly enthusiasm and careful fairmindedness but she can be pretty subjective and arrogant, and she does not back down from a fight.
SarahZ: Hi this is a video about Homestuck! *starts rambling about how much she loved the comic and had fun in the fandom*
Me: This is boring and extrapolates from her personal experience to the whole of fandom, pass.
SarahZ: So I got legal threats from What Pumpkin for linking to this post by Gio about the supposed work issues at Hiveswap.
Me: Huh ok apparently the video did have some interesting content! *sees a disclaimer at the bottom that Gio's post may have been based on false information from a biased anonymous source*
Gio's post:
Hussie was an uncommunicative, childish, mercurial nightmare to work for, which is why things fell through with TOG. Specifically, Hussie got TOG to do uncredited work on the Homestuck comic, then got angry when they didn't have time to also finish the game.
Once What Pumpkin took over, upper management told the first What Pumpkin team, working in 3D, that everything was doing great, then fired them with no warning or severance because 'there was no money'. The 3D team's work was re-used by the new 2D team with no credit, and people were not rehired, leaving a largely female group of game devs suddenly unemployed in an harsh economy with nothing to show for it.
There are also other issues with lack of crediting, and lack of financial transparency. People were pressured into overwork based on their love of the comic but given little guidance, and then they or their work was dropped without warning based on Hussie's whims.
Me: Ouch. Some of this has compelling evidence, and the rest sounds plausibly true. But maybe Gio and/or SarahZ is blowing things out of proportion.
And then today. Cam linked me SarahZ's next Homestuck video. And it was NOT BORING AT ALL.
Video Two:
SarahZ: So after making that video, I got vague legal threats from What Pumpkin, and vague unsourced claims about one of Gio's sources being dodgy, so I added the disclaimer. What Pumpkin put out their first kickstarter update in months, saying The Odd Gentlemen did do uncredited work on the end of Homestuck, but didn't want credit so it's ok. Given that this all happened in 2016 I assume the post was a result of my video.
What Pumpkin President Cindy to SarahZ's boss: TAKE DOWN YOUR MISINFORMATION OR WE WILL SUE. Our company has already expended a massive amount of resources that could cost us THOUSANDS OF DOLLARS dealing with the huge negative backlash due to her spreading the malicious rumours created by a stalker (Gio) and a known liar (his source).
SarahZ's boss: What misinformation? Sarah said Gio said some negative stuff about What Pumpkin but that she couldn't be sure if it was true. And Gio did say that, and we have no evidence that what he was said untrue.
*clip of SarahZ in the first video adding a billion disclaimers about the importance of taking anonymous sources with a grain of salt*
Andrew Hussie: Hi! I'm sorry Cindy was so angry, we're just all so hurt here because we want to move past bad behaviour of people who don't even work for the company any more instead of dredging up old drama. I haven't watched your video, but you seem like a talented young journalist who cares about Homestuck and the truth, if you talk to me I can tell you cool secret facts!
SarahZ: Thanks? So, what of what I said was untrue? It looks like Gio was at least right about TOG doing uncredited work on the comic, and that you only told people because of my video.
Andrew Hussie: Yes but Gio's a weird stalker who keeps investigating our company. And until now we didn't think anyone cared. But now the drama hounds want the drama, so we posted something we'd prepared just in case.
(SarahZ to the viewer: Gio runs a general gaming blog with 2 Homestuck posts, and I have seen no evidence of him stalking individual people)
SarahZ: You mean the kickstarter backers want to know what happened to the two million dollars they gave you, and Cindy lied about it being a huge drain of resources possibly costing thousands of dollars. I see. I have since spoken to more employees and they agree with Gio that you fired the 3D team on short notice, how do you respond?
Andrew Hussie: Well, first I'll need assurances that you are sensible enough to know when it's important to sidestep the facts. Then I can tell you SECRETS.
SarahZ: I will respect people's privacy but otherwise use my own judgement. So, do you want to tell me your side or should I just make my follow up video based on all the accounts I have from disgruntled ex-employees? :)
Andrew Hussie: *cough* Well the truth is...we had to close the 3D branch suddenly due to [redacted]'s toxic behaviour, and didn't want to cause drama by publicising it.
SarahZ: If what you're saying is true that sounds pretty bad. But what about all the other disgruntled ex-employees? And what specifically did I say that is untrue, rather than just "true and sounds bad but there was context".
Andrew Hussie: [REDACTED] BRAINWASHED THEM. The majority of the ex-employees all got brainwashed by [redacted], he made the company shut down with toxic behaviour then went around spreading malicious lies (note: [redacted] is not the same as Gio's source, also supposedly a toxic ex-employee spreading malicious lies) and only a minority of them still remember the way things actually happened.
BRAINWASHED. I SEE.
SarahZ: What about the claims you didn't give people credit?
Andrew Hussie: DID [ALICE] TELL YOU THAT? See what happened with her is maybe we used a LITTLE bit of her art but when she emailed us asking for credit we noticed she'd WRITTEN A BLOG POST NON-SPECIFICALLY COMPLAINING ABOUT BEING FIRED WITH NO NOTICE, so we knew she'd been POISONED. I can understand why things looked bad from her perspective but...she once drew porn of what might have been a minor, maybe! So it was totally justified to send her legal threats when she asked for credit!
SarahZ, several weeks and tens of thousands of words of emails later: But what of what I said was actually untrue.
Andrew Hussie: The short answer is I don't know yet because I still haven't gotten around to watching your video.
I JUST. I CANNOT.
And then he did watch it and still had no actual misinformation to correct, just 'poisoned perspectives' on things he admitted were true, and she was DONE.
Cindy: I'm sorry I was overly rude before. But I was VERY UPSET because you kept spreading all those MALICIOUS LIES. Andrew has told me you have been trusted with secrets noone else knows so hopefully you understand the situation now.
SarahZ: Lol. Sure do.
SarahZ: Fortunately, that's the last of my correspondence with What Pumpkin. I made my first video having a not that positive but not that negative perspective on what Pumpkin the company but still loving Homestuck. A month and a half later I'm frustrated that the company was able to carry on for so long at all.
And so, who knows what happens next for the company. At this point, you'd be better off learning to code and making your own version of Hiveswap act 3. Which brings me my sponsor, Brilliant, a great website for-
THE END
Like...I'm really glad it was SarahZ in particular that this happened with. Her having such a bubbly, girly, yet chill persona while actually being stubborn, intelligent, combative and a little mean, means they vastly underestimated her willingness and ability to stand up to these silencing techniques and make What Pumpkin and Andrew Hussie look terrible on a very large public stage.
Also, I couldn't find a good way to get it across, but there's a few times where Cindy and Hussie make vague references to like, Sarah being a Hurtful Cis Woman, and Gio making women uncomfortable, but it seems to entirely be based on the fact that a lot of the employees are women/trans and they don't like seeing the company insulted. Which, yes, does hurt the feelings of some (trans) women, but, uh... yeah.
no subject
Date: 2021-07-01 12:21 pm (UTC)Also NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO ugh there's so much ick in the way that Hussie's acting and Cindy and just *flails*
no subject
Date: 2021-07-02 11:51 am (UTC)YEAH
no subject
Date: 2021-07-01 02:06 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2021-07-02 11:51 am (UTC)Yeah, it just keeps going!
no subject
Date: 2021-07-01 09:18 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2021-07-02 11:37 am (UTC)That's a good point, yeah. Hussie just kept pushing the same conversation buttons waiting for the reaction they wanted. I guess they're a one trick pony obnoxious Homestuck reference only partly intended.
no subject
Date: 2021-07-02 12:50 am (UTC)(Please don't tell me, I am dedicated to maintaining my ignorance.)
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Date: 2021-07-02 11:35 am (UTC)Ha yeah there's a reason I made sure people knew right away that they wouldn't need to understand Homestuck to understand this post.
no subject
Date: 2021-07-03 10:15 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2021-07-03 02:14 pm (UTC)Yeah I was not expecting this specific variety of awful either :/
no subject
Date: 2021-07-03 04:59 pm (UTC)Totally! She was the perfect person for this to happen with, I'm so glad AH and Cindy made the incredibly poor decision to target her. (Which also unfortunately jives with the stories I've heard over the years about enthusiastic, bubbly, chill young women having been chewed up and spat out by the Homestuck machine or by AH personally. I know that's not the case with everyone who's ever worked for What Pumpkin, etc, etc, but there really does seem to be a pattern and I'm glad it finally managed to bite them in the ass.)
no subject
Date: 2021-07-05 09:10 am (UTC)Yeah. I mean I do hope she didn't find the experience too upsetting, she didn't deserve to be treated this way, but hopefully something positive can come of it.
no subject
Date: 2021-07-09 06:37 pm (UTC)Two things that really raised my hackles in the video:
1. You discussed this already, but the way AH was transparently schmoozing up to (what What Pumpkin see Sarah Z as) a silly little twentysomething girl and playing Good Cop to Cindy's Bad Cop, and promising to answer all her questions - provided she proves she's thrown in her emotional loyalty to the What Pumpkin team and she can be trusted to "artfully sidestep" the facts. What!!
2. The repeated insistence that Sarah Z should have gotten in contact with What Pumpkin before producing the first video. Ignoring that people like Gio have tried to contact What Pumpkin for comment and received no response... I don't think Sarah Z is a journalist? She's a youtube entertainer. She doesn't have any journalistic obligations, besides to not actually break the law with libel.
And then repeatedly accusing someone of doing something wrong, when it's arguable nothing wrong was done in the first place, then magnanimously pulling back like you're generously overlooking said wrongdoing ("I won't ask you to answer for not consulting with us or force you to own up for that decision") is so skeevy! What!!!!!
no subject
Date: 2021-07-12 11:31 am (UTC)Yeah it is just...nnng. SO SKEEVY.
no subject
Date: 2021-07-17 07:30 am (UTC)I admit I find SarahZ's style abrasive but now I'm so grateful for that part of her public persona so that she could really drag Hussie for filth. The company's employees are still acting like any critique of whatpumpkin are a critique of them which means you're criticizing trans and women creators which means maybe YOU are being transphobic, hmm?? And the fact that they're defending a corporation with such fervor is just......man.
I'm glad Sarah Z also had lawyers to back her up against the utterly asinine legal threat they started with
no subject
Date: 2021-07-17 08:00 am (UTC)I'm glad Sarah Z also had lawyers to back her up against the utterly asinine legal threat they started with
Same. And I have to wonder how many other people have been silenced before this.