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So. I watched the next episode of When They Cry and it was all about the sad backstory of this cute little girl, and I got the feeling this was setup for even more bad things happening to her in later episodes (The whole show is about bad things happening to teens, but I can deal with that when they're treated as peers to the protagonist, and she is not)
I decided I'd rather be spoiled, so looked up some episode summaries to see if there was a point where the plot would stop being about things I find upsetting and BOY IS THERE EVER NOT. It's a layered cornucopia of my squicks all the way to the end!
Also I feel like I was in fact warned about this, decided to avoid the game/anime, then totally forgot. Good going, me. Still, I'm not actually triggered or anything, and I'm glad I watched what I did. It's an interesting and complex story.
Spoilery discussion under the cut. I'll list the triggers/squicks on the first line, but they're spoilery in and of themselves.
*** Spoilers ***
So! The plot involves: child abuse, violent psychosis, incurable contagious disease, parasites, and bugs under the skin.
AT LEAST THERE'S NO ZOMBIES, I GUESS.
My previous posts, for context.
I did suspect that "Mion" at the end of the second arc was actually Shion, but not because I actually noticed any clues, it's just a given in any plot where one identical twin kills the other. I otherwise had no idea what was going on, lol.
My understanding, based on the wiki:
There's some sort of initially symptom free parasite/illness that affects everyone in the village. If triggered, either by leaving the village or stress, the infected person becomes paranoid and violent. Eventually they progress to imagining bugs crawling under their skin, which they claw at so much they kill themselves. (The wiki helpfully illustrates this with screenshots of bugs and blood. Thanks, wiki!)
The head villagers know about the illness, but it suits them to have everyone believe it's the demon/local god behind all the deaths. There's also a group of researchers studying it, they've developed a partial cure but many have their own shady motivations and are overall a threat, especially the "nurse", who is actually the Head Evil Researcher.
The deaths four years ago were the result of villagers getting stressed about the upcoming dam and snapping. And the deaths since then have been a combination of the disease, and various complex coverups. Also the Head Evil Researcher faked her own death with a fake body.
In the first arc, Keiichi got infected. All the stuff about people trying to kill him was his psychosis, and he killed his friends for no reason :( They didn't poison him, he just progressed to the final phase of the disease and killed himself.
In the second arc, Shion got infected, and killed Mion then took over her identity. But they had already swapped identities as children and swapped back and forth a bunch during the plot so I am pretty confused about exactly what was going on there.
And then I stopped watching. But it's interesting to look back on what I watched with the new context.
Afaict, wide angry eyes means the person has the disease, and cat eyes mean the person seeing the eyes has the disease and is delusional.
All of the group of friends progress to violent paranoia in different arcs. Rena's history of violence at her old school was triggered by her leaving the village.
BUT.
THERE'S MORE.
Even though the deaths blamed on "the demon" were caused by the disease, or just cold blooded murders by evil researchers etc, the demon does actually exist. She's also the same person as the god: she was a god, then became corrupted to a demon. I think.
Also she's a cute little girl with cute little horns. Ok!
When people in late stages of the disease have visions of the demon, that's actually her. She's often trying to help them, eg she told Rena to go back to the village, since that would help her symptoms.
The only person who can always see the demon is Rika, the shrine maiden. Rika is also the only person who remembers the time loops! Which is why she seems to know what's going on, and has an air of passive melancholy: she's watched her friends die over and over for like a hundred years. She tries to help them avoid their fates, but by the time canon begins has lost the motivation to try very hard.
The plot for the rest of the series is...ok I tried untangling it by reading the detailed episode summaries but the wiki writer keeps being distracted by Shion sexily sucking a popsicle.
Anyway. Afaict, in the final arc of the first anime season, Rena figures out about the virus, and has to deal with a real conspiracy against her of those who benefit from keeping it secret, and paranoia caused by the disease. Keiichi remembers killing her and Mion in Arc 1, not as in his delusion but the true vision of them being innocent. He realises Rena is experiencing the same sorts of delusions, Rika is very happy for someone else to actually remember a time loop and they try to save Rena.
Rena nearly kills her friends, but holds back. "Though tragedy has been averted through Rena's atonement, the constant time loops have yet to lift; however, there is now hope for the future."
(Also the reason Keiichi's family moved here was that he was violent towards little kids in their old town?? Blech)
Eventually the demon-goddess takes human form, which is the final piece needed to end the time loops. Everyone works together to stop the Head Evil Researcher (who wants everyone to die so she becomes a goddess?) and time finally goes on it's way.
I'm not sure if the disease gets cured? Less coverups and evil researchers etc is still a net good if not. And everyone has a chance to grow up. Even the evil researcher gets a happier childhood due to...I think Rika time travelling and fixing things?
I like this sort of layered Doom that is eventually unpicked but only after a lot of people giving into their fate and doing awful things before finally overcoming their pain and tragedy to understand each other and avert fate. I have personal Issues with stories about any mental illness that turns people into Psychotic Killers(*): my family has a tendency towards psychosis and growing up around the idea that it Makes You Dangerous wasn't great. But the empathy for everyone and eventual happy endings certainly makes up for a lot.
(*)psychosis does sometimes lead to violence, but not in the tropey way it's portrayed.
So. I watched the next episode of When They Cry and it was all about the sad backstory of this cute little girl, and I got the feeling this was setup for even more bad things happening to her in later episodes (The whole show is about bad things happening to teens, but I can deal with that when they're treated as peers to the protagonist, and she is not)
I decided I'd rather be spoiled, so looked up some episode summaries to see if there was a point where the plot would stop being about things I find upsetting and BOY IS THERE EVER NOT. It's a layered cornucopia of my squicks all the way to the end!
Also I feel like I was in fact warned about this, decided to avoid the game/anime, then totally forgot. Good going, me. Still, I'm not actually triggered or anything, and I'm glad I watched what I did. It's an interesting and complex story.
Spoilery discussion under the cut. I'll list the triggers/squicks on the first line, but they're spoilery in and of themselves.
*** Spoilers ***
So! The plot involves: child abuse, violent psychosis, incurable contagious disease, parasites, and bugs under the skin.
AT LEAST THERE'S NO ZOMBIES, I GUESS.
My previous posts, for context.
I did suspect that "Mion" at the end of the second arc was actually Shion, but not because I actually noticed any clues, it's just a given in any plot where one identical twin kills the other. I otherwise had no idea what was going on, lol.
My understanding, based on the wiki:
There's some sort of initially symptom free parasite/illness that affects everyone in the village. If triggered, either by leaving the village or stress, the infected person becomes paranoid and violent. Eventually they progress to imagining bugs crawling under their skin, which they claw at so much they kill themselves. (The wiki helpfully illustrates this with screenshots of bugs and blood. Thanks, wiki!)
The head villagers know about the illness, but it suits them to have everyone believe it's the demon/local god behind all the deaths. There's also a group of researchers studying it, they've developed a partial cure but many have their own shady motivations and are overall a threat, especially the "nurse", who is actually the Head Evil Researcher.
The deaths four years ago were the result of villagers getting stressed about the upcoming dam and snapping. And the deaths since then have been a combination of the disease, and various complex coverups. Also the Head Evil Researcher faked her own death with a fake body.
In the first arc, Keiichi got infected. All the stuff about people trying to kill him was his psychosis, and he killed his friends for no reason :( They didn't poison him, he just progressed to the final phase of the disease and killed himself.
In the second arc, Shion got infected, and killed Mion then took over her identity. But they had already swapped identities as children and swapped back and forth a bunch during the plot so I am pretty confused about exactly what was going on there.
And then I stopped watching. But it's interesting to look back on what I watched with the new context.
Afaict, wide angry eyes means the person has the disease, and cat eyes mean the person seeing the eyes has the disease and is delusional.
All of the group of friends progress to violent paranoia in different arcs. Rena's history of violence at her old school was triggered by her leaving the village.
BUT.
THERE'S MORE.
Even though the deaths blamed on "the demon" were caused by the disease, or just cold blooded murders by evil researchers etc, the demon does actually exist. She's also the same person as the god: she was a god, then became corrupted to a demon. I think.
Also she's a cute little girl with cute little horns. Ok!
When people in late stages of the disease have visions of the demon, that's actually her. She's often trying to help them, eg she told Rena to go back to the village, since that would help her symptoms.
The only person who can always see the demon is Rika, the shrine maiden. Rika is also the only person who remembers the time loops! Which is why she seems to know what's going on, and has an air of passive melancholy: she's watched her friends die over and over for like a hundred years. She tries to help them avoid their fates, but by the time canon begins has lost the motivation to try very hard.
The plot for the rest of the series is...ok I tried untangling it by reading the detailed episode summaries but the wiki writer keeps being distracted by Shion sexily sucking a popsicle.
Anyway. Afaict, in the final arc of the first anime season, Rena figures out about the virus, and has to deal with a real conspiracy against her of those who benefit from keeping it secret, and paranoia caused by the disease. Keiichi remembers killing her and Mion in Arc 1, not as in his delusion but the true vision of them being innocent. He realises Rena is experiencing the same sorts of delusions, Rika is very happy for someone else to actually remember a time loop and they try to save Rena.
Rena nearly kills her friends, but holds back. "Though tragedy has been averted through Rena's atonement, the constant time loops have yet to lift; however, there is now hope for the future."
(Also the reason Keiichi's family moved here was that he was violent towards little kids in their old town?? Blech)
Eventually the demon-goddess takes human form, which is the final piece needed to end the time loops. Everyone works together to stop the Head Evil Researcher (who wants everyone to die so she becomes a goddess?) and time finally goes on it's way.
I'm not sure if the disease gets cured? Less coverups and evil researchers etc is still a net good if not. And everyone has a chance to grow up. Even the evil researcher gets a happier childhood due to...I think Rika time travelling and fixing things?
I like this sort of layered Doom that is eventually unpicked but only after a lot of people giving into their fate and doing awful things before finally overcoming their pain and tragedy to understand each other and avert fate. I have personal Issues with stories about any mental illness that turns people into Psychotic Killers(*): my family has a tendency towards psychosis and growing up around the idea that it Makes You Dangerous wasn't great. But the empathy for everyone and eventual happy endings certainly makes up for a lot.
(*)psychosis does sometimes lead to violence, but not in the tropey way it's portrayed.
no subject
Date: 2019-09-16 06:21 am (UTC)It sounded pretty cool, and the structural stuff with the time loops and unreliable narration was interesting, but I would in no way be able to handle all the horror in the Bad Loops.
My favorite Mass Effect fic also does a thing with time loops inevitably going Wrong until people stop keeping secrets and start telling other people about what's going on and getting their help in changing things - it's an interesting theme, especially in contrast with one-person Time Travel Fix-It stories. Sometimes one person just CAN'T fix it, no matter how much they've seen or what they know. It takes teamwork.
no subject
Date: 2019-09-16 01:04 pm (UTC)Yes it's a really nice take on the genre, and there's something to be said about a multi-person tragedy being solved by multiple people working together.
suddenly starts pondering how this could work for, like, Hamlet
no subject
Date: 2019-09-16 01:19 pm (UTC)I'm not sure if the disease gets cured?
It does not! The doctor who actually cares about the research for the sake of helping the townspeople is fairly satisfied with the advances they've made into medicine that can help manage it, though, and is continuing to try to find ways to bring people back from the later stages. I actually really dig that everyone is always going to live with the demon parasite in their brains and get to be happy and functional anyway.
I have personal Issues with stories about any mental illness that turns people into Psychotic Killers(*): my family has a tendency towards psychosis and growing up around the idea that it Makes You Dangerous wasn't great. But the empathy for everyone and eventual happy endings certainly makes up for a lot.
And... yeah. This is the other part of why I Love Higurashi, Hesitate to Rec It. It is not by any stretch of the imagination Good Representation, but there were things about the way it portrayed mental illness that I found deeply moving, particularly with Rena's experience of it. I think personal reactions to it will vary a lot based on how much you need to hear "no, you aren't inherently dangerous" versus how much you need to hear "you would still be a person with worth even if you were" and "even if there are some dangerous or unpleasant things inherent to you, the effects that they have are still situational, and situations can be altered."
no subject
Date: 2019-09-17 01:39 pm (UTC)I actually really dig that everyone is always going to live with the demon parasite in their brains and get to be happy and functional anyway.
Ooh, yeah, I like that a lot too!
I think personal reactions to it will vary a lot based on how much you need to hear "no, you aren't inherently dangerous" versus how much you need to hear "you would still be a person with worth even if you were"
Hmm. That may part of it, since while my mental illness has sometimes made me emotionally toxic, I've never been physically dangerous, and the implication that it will is unpleasant (I'm not actually super prone to psychosis, but I'm very aware of it's potential manifestation). But I'm very much drawn to other sorts of "you would still be a person with worth even if you were (physically) dangerous" narratives that aren't about psychosis, even some very tropey and unrealistic ones. I have issues around psychosis in particular.
Psychosis is portrayed as a Nice Person who sometimes Goes Psychotic in this very defined way that is unlike their regular self. When at least for me and my family it's being yourself, just convinced of something untrue, and often also in a heightened negative emotional state. We feel like everyone is gaslighting us, and mostly get sad and passive aggressively resentful. Even when talking about murdering people it's like "Well I know this is rational but you'll probably think I'm acting crazy because nobody listens to me :/" (no murders took place, thankfully). Still potentially dangerous, but also still us. It's not possible to go "Oh that was just the Psychosis", as if the psychosis is some separate thing.
And like... if I did decide I had to kill someone, I would use poison, not a baseball bat. My extreme anger burns cold. That sort of Crazy is not the sort being shown to be ok, at least not in the episodes I saw.
no subject
Date: 2019-09-17 05:20 pm (UTC)I have issues around psychosis in particular.
This is fair though. Psychosis isn't a symptom of any of my diagnoses, though I was once hospitalized when my family thought I might be experiencing it. I do feel like I'm losing control of myself when I have a meltdown, because what's happening is that my brain is so overloaded with everything it's trying to process that higher functions like inhibitions start to break down. I hadn't really fully considered before the problem with how fiction tends to link psychosis to that experience as just general Crazy.
no subject
Date: 2019-10-11 12:51 pm (UTC)Ah, ok! I think my Issues with Psychosis were getting in the way of engaging with the story.
And yeah that makes sense, I am much more comfortable with similar, equally unrealistic/problematic narratives that involve forms of mental illness I don't have personal Issues with.