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alias_sqbrI will repeat a little from my previous post here to keep all my notes for these panels together.
Queering video games: James Dominguez [Games Writer, Fairfax Media], Jeffrey Yohalem [Lead Writer, Ubisoft Montreal], Liam Esler [Writer/Scripter, Beamdog], Luke Miller [Indie Developer, Up Multimedia], Maya Kerr [Lecturer, SAE Institute]
People talked about Gabriel Knight 2 and Jade Empire as formative games with queer characters.
It was cool being in a big like minded audience listening to some Actual Queer Game Developers, they were 4 white gay/bi guys and a white trans (I think) woman and it kind of showed (she got lumped with the Questions About Women a lot) but they tried to cover L,G, B and T, plus a brief mention of non binary and intersex people. Asexual and aromantic people were quite clearly not even on the radar. But at least noone was straight! (I AM LOOKING AT YOU SWANCON)
There was an interesting contrast between Jeffrey, who is all about making fairly conventional mainstream games with optional/side queer content like Leonardo De Vinci flirting with Ezio in Assassins Creed or the deliberately sexuality-free Child of Light, and indie creators like Maya and Luke who are making the gayest games they can (like My Ex-Boyfriend the Space Tyrant which sounds interesting) and then hoping they're good enough to appeal to a wider audience. In the middle was Liam who wrote a lesbian romance for one of the Baldur's Gate games. But they all agreed on the fundamental problems facing gay creators in a homophobic world.
Paraphrasing Jeffrey "Michelangelo only had one canvas, so when the pope said he had to paint the annunciation that was all he could do, his subversion was hidden in the margins and got him into trouble. Games are a labyrinth, too complex for much oversight, so you can hide much more. You can also make a game which appeals to everyone: A populist Jerry Bruckheimer which contains a David Lynch game for those who choose to find it"
(I'm ok with this as ONE way of having queer games, but really don't like the idea that this is the best we can do. Pretty sure some of the panel was with me)
We need "normalised" mogai characters, where it's no big deal, as well as ones where it IS a big deal. Because sometimes we are NOT just like "normal" people! Gay white men shouldn't decide that since they're acceptable-ish now they can pull up the drawbridge to exclude everyone else.
Gay/mogai characters are often villains, which can be fun but is only ok if there are also NON villainous mogai characters. Same sex relationships are seen as inherently predatory and doomed, even when the characters are sympathetic, eg all the Doomed Gays in Gabriel Knight 2.
Recs: Menici (sp?), With Those We Love Alive, Porpentine, Bioware (for a big company, anyway), Dominique Pampelmouse
Games like Sunset Overdrive and Saints Row 4 don't divide clothes/appearance modifiers into male and female, you can construct a more complex presentation. But these are "silly" games (that may have been a point in a different panel).
The sexuality of the main character of Child of Light was deliberately never mentioned because female characters are always sexualised.
If we only talk about bad experiences that's all people hear. We need to celebrate the good things about being mogai.
It would be interesting to play a game set in a world where mogai-ness is the default (or at least straightness isn't)
Pre-gen vs custom characters: Nic Healey [Senior editor, CNET], Jessica McDonell [Video Journalist, Gamespot], Michael Hampden [Lead Game Designer, Ubisoft Singapore], Jeffrey Yohalem [Lead Writer, Ubisoft], Aidan Scanlan [Assistant Director of Design, Bioware], Rich Vogel [President, BattleCry Studios]
This was really interesting! I asked a question about how it affects repayability and ACCIDENTALLY ENDED UP INSULTING MASS EFFECT 3 TO A BIOWARE GUY, had to backpeddle quickly when he got defensive because I really did just want to talk about replayability. Except nobody but me seemed to really care! None of the developers, none of the audience. Aside from agreeing that it was interesting in Dragon Age Origins. Which is interesting given how much replaying with different characters is a thing amongst my dragon age fan friends, and how passionate everyone was about other aspects of customisation.
Skyrim emphasises character creation over story.
If a game lets the protagonist do awful things the writers can't assume they're a "good guy". Either keep track or you lose character consistency.
In the Kim Kardashian game customising your appearance (as an upcoming famous person) is part of the plot.
Open world games offer different point of view.
Even with "set" stories the player imagine aspects of the character for themselves.
You shape the character and have investment even if you're only able to affect growth from a set starting point eg Walking Dead
If the player defines the character the developer must respect that as the game progresses.
Female characters are often no fun to play for female players because the male designers have a narrow self serving vision.
Question I wanted to ask: What about games with no defined gender where the story has space for any or neither, eg fallen London
Some people like being able to do ridiculous things. This doesn't fit every game eg clown makeup in Assassin's Creed would throw players out of the fairly realistic period setting. But it suits games like Sunset Overdrive and Saints Row 4. (looking at these panel notes together: this is the other thing with customisation, it can allow people to represent marginalised identities the devs weren't even considering)
Art directors find customisation difficult to cope with because it so easily makes games ugly and uncohesive. Someone else said that's a sign of poor customisation. The team needs to agree what space the game is in and stay within it.
You get to choose the dance but the night club owner chooses the music and lighting.
Xcom creates great stories.
The player feels betrayed when the game contradicts the character they've been creating. It's less upsetting if it feels like someone else's story.
If you make people choose between the prettiest/ most in character appearance and the powerful armour that they need to beat the game it takes some of the fun out of the game.
In The Witcher you don't know if your decisions are "right or wrong" you just do what feels right and the story shows the often unexpected consequences of your choices.
From a business pov it is cheaper and faster to offer less choice.
Walking dead you create such a compelling story you don't want to replay. (This was in response to my question about replaying games. I think it might be interesting to replay the same story with one or two different preset characters, but...noone else did. The emphasis was on the player playing once, and creating the single story they want when they do)
Madden and Minecraft are already perfect for what they are. "Experience" games aren't as polished yet. Journey and 30 Flights of Loving are examples of "experience" games heading towards perfection.
Queering video games: James Dominguez [Games Writer, Fairfax Media], Jeffrey Yohalem [Lead Writer, Ubisoft Montreal], Liam Esler [Writer/Scripter, Beamdog], Luke Miller [Indie Developer, Up Multimedia], Maya Kerr [Lecturer, SAE Institute]
People talked about Gabriel Knight 2 and Jade Empire as formative games with queer characters.
It was cool being in a big like minded audience listening to some Actual Queer Game Developers, they were 4 white gay/bi guys and a white trans (I think) woman and it kind of showed (she got lumped with the Questions About Women a lot) but they tried to cover L,G, B and T, plus a brief mention of non binary and intersex people. Asexual and aromantic people were quite clearly not even on the radar. But at least noone was straight! (I AM LOOKING AT YOU SWANCON)
There was an interesting contrast between Jeffrey, who is all about making fairly conventional mainstream games with optional/side queer content like Leonardo De Vinci flirting with Ezio in Assassins Creed or the deliberately sexuality-free Child of Light, and indie creators like Maya and Luke who are making the gayest games they can (like My Ex-Boyfriend the Space Tyrant which sounds interesting) and then hoping they're good enough to appeal to a wider audience. In the middle was Liam who wrote a lesbian romance for one of the Baldur's Gate games. But they all agreed on the fundamental problems facing gay creators in a homophobic world.
Paraphrasing Jeffrey "Michelangelo only had one canvas, so when the pope said he had to paint the annunciation that was all he could do, his subversion was hidden in the margins and got him into trouble. Games are a labyrinth, too complex for much oversight, so you can hide much more. You can also make a game which appeals to everyone: A populist Jerry Bruckheimer which contains a David Lynch game for those who choose to find it"
(I'm ok with this as ONE way of having queer games, but really don't like the idea that this is the best we can do. Pretty sure some of the panel was with me)
We need "normalised" mogai characters, where it's no big deal, as well as ones where it IS a big deal. Because sometimes we are NOT just like "normal" people! Gay white men shouldn't decide that since they're acceptable-ish now they can pull up the drawbridge to exclude everyone else.
Gay/mogai characters are often villains, which can be fun but is only ok if there are also NON villainous mogai characters. Same sex relationships are seen as inherently predatory and doomed, even when the characters are sympathetic, eg all the Doomed Gays in Gabriel Knight 2.
Recs: Menici (sp?), With Those We Love Alive, Porpentine, Bioware (for a big company, anyway), Dominique Pampelmouse
Games like Sunset Overdrive and Saints Row 4 don't divide clothes/appearance modifiers into male and female, you can construct a more complex presentation. But these are "silly" games (that may have been a point in a different panel).
The sexuality of the main character of Child of Light was deliberately never mentioned because female characters are always sexualised.
If we only talk about bad experiences that's all people hear. We need to celebrate the good things about being mogai.
It would be interesting to play a game set in a world where mogai-ness is the default (or at least straightness isn't)
Pre-gen vs custom characters: Nic Healey [Senior editor, CNET], Jessica McDonell [Video Journalist, Gamespot], Michael Hampden [Lead Game Designer, Ubisoft Singapore], Jeffrey Yohalem [Lead Writer, Ubisoft], Aidan Scanlan [Assistant Director of Design, Bioware], Rich Vogel [President, BattleCry Studios]
This was really interesting! I asked a question about how it affects repayability and ACCIDENTALLY ENDED UP INSULTING MASS EFFECT 3 TO A BIOWARE GUY, had to backpeddle quickly when he got defensive because I really did just want to talk about replayability. Except nobody but me seemed to really care! None of the developers, none of the audience. Aside from agreeing that it was interesting in Dragon Age Origins. Which is interesting given how much replaying with different characters is a thing amongst my dragon age fan friends, and how passionate everyone was about other aspects of customisation.
Skyrim emphasises character creation over story.
If a game lets the protagonist do awful things the writers can't assume they're a "good guy". Either keep track or you lose character consistency.
In the Kim Kardashian game customising your appearance (as an upcoming famous person) is part of the plot.
Open world games offer different point of view.
Even with "set" stories the player imagine aspects of the character for themselves.
You shape the character and have investment even if you're only able to affect growth from a set starting point eg Walking Dead
If the player defines the character the developer must respect that as the game progresses.
Female characters are often no fun to play for female players because the male designers have a narrow self serving vision.
Question I wanted to ask: What about games with no defined gender where the story has space for any or neither, eg fallen London
Some people like being able to do ridiculous things. This doesn't fit every game eg clown makeup in Assassin's Creed would throw players out of the fairly realistic period setting. But it suits games like Sunset Overdrive and Saints Row 4. (looking at these panel notes together: this is the other thing with customisation, it can allow people to represent marginalised identities the devs weren't even considering)
Art directors find customisation difficult to cope with because it so easily makes games ugly and uncohesive. Someone else said that's a sign of poor customisation. The team needs to agree what space the game is in and stay within it.
You get to choose the dance but the night club owner chooses the music and lighting.
Xcom creates great stories.
The player feels betrayed when the game contradicts the character they've been creating. It's less upsetting if it feels like someone else's story.
If you make people choose between the prettiest/ most in character appearance and the powerful armour that they need to beat the game it takes some of the fun out of the game.
In The Witcher you don't know if your decisions are "right or wrong" you just do what feels right and the story shows the often unexpected consequences of your choices.
From a business pov it is cheaper and faster to offer less choice.
Walking dead you create such a compelling story you don't want to replay. (This was in response to my question about replaying games. I think it might be interesting to replay the same story with one or two different preset characters, but...noone else did. The emphasis was on the player playing once, and creating the single story they want when they do)
Madden and Minecraft are already perfect for what they are. "Experience" games aren't as polished yet. Journey and 30 Flights of Loving are examples of "experience" games heading towards perfection.
no subject
Date: 2014-11-04 07:34 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2014-11-07 12:38 pm (UTC)Yeah, complete freedom breaks the immerson too. In Guild Wars 2 you have to stay within heavy/light/medium and changing an item's appearance to a different item you've "unlocked" costs money, which works ok. Except I'm too stingy to pay the cost :)