Thoughts on Doctor who (up to season 3)

[alias_sqbr]

Disclaimer: My "You are too stupid for the internet right now" warning beeper is sounding but I am in a mood to pontificate and the cat's wandered off. Also, spoilers, there's anyone who cares left who hasn't seen it.

So, I just finished Dr Who Season 3. Overall I really enjoyed it, but some bits were just..blah. Wrong. In the end I found the only way to process the arc so far is to see the Doctor as a condescending borderline-sociopath who prefers the company of those who don't challenge his intelligence or power. Still, the second last disk is made of like 99% pure awesome (with 1%: a maid? Really? Ew)

And so finally I can read all the meta I kept seeing on metafandom a year ago. And use it to say what I would but am too dumb to :) Unfortunately a little under half of them are flocked/deleted, which I guess is a sign of how intense the imbroglio got.

So:

Doctor Who and life and death: a nice synopsis of one of the themes of the season, good thinky (I say unthinky-ishly)

Meta: Martha Jones Is a Dork: exactly! I went into this season expecting to hate Rose (the doctor does not have a girlfriend!) and love Martha, and found myself liking them both (I hink there's a rule against that) but identifying much more with Martha because I am in love with David Tennant and he never returns my calls

Dealing with race in New Who: I totally agree that the complete avoidance of dealing with Martha's (or the other black characters) race in the historicals is just jarring (though "The Shakespeare Code" is one big silly anachronism anyway), and invalidates any point they were trying to make with "Daleks in Manhatten". One of my personal bugbears is whitewashing the past so that white/middle class/male etc viewers don't have to think about how nasty and oppressive their group used to be. Also , on a more shallow note, why on earth miss the chance to dress your characters in fancy dress? "Human Nature/Family of Blood" just make everything else look empty and crap and missing David Tennant in pretty clothes by comparison.

Mickey, Martha, and the Message that Doesn't Belong on Who and The myth of colorblindness: more on race in Doctor Who: It was funny for me going in to this show knowing there was this whole explosion in the middle of season 3, and it made me more attentive to portrayals of race than I might otherwise have been. There were many, many times earlier on when I went "Wait, and at this point people were happy with show's portrayal of race, how bad is it going to get?", the repeated themes of stupid cannon fodder slaves and black characters as second best were pretty darn creepy. The weird thing is I wasn't extra-specially offended by season 3 in particular, maybe because I'd already prepared myself for the way Martha is treated (and because I'm white, duh) Also, as a few people have asked: where are all the asians? That's like the constant mantra in tv sf, really :/

And do not get me started on the portrayal of women. The discussion on this post has a thing about the Doctor seeing his companions (and humans in general) as like adorable fluffy kittens: you love them to bits, but they're not really your equals, and you sure as hell wouldn't have sex with them. And of course in this context it makes perfect sense for him to prefer Rose (a young cute non-threatening ball of affectionate energy) to Martha and Jack (who are older, smarter, more sensible and competent, and in the case of Jack are almost a threat)

So, this may be utter crap I renounce later, and I will suck at comments until I feel a bit less stupid. Feel free to disagree (or agree!) anyway :) There's a whole other thing about how this Who compares to the old one but I'm not versed enough in old canon to do it.

Also, two three things that aren't covered above:
-Two different alien generated pig-people-things? With no relationship to each other? What's up with that?
-Have I ever mentioned that I have a soft spot for two friends/enemies who nobody else understands but are torn apart by their opposing/identical natures? No?
-It's a gas mask! I'd seen images from this scene before but it is SO much better in context :)

Comments

[greteldragon.livejournal.com]

Also, as a few people have asked: where are all the asians?

They used up their PC quota on Torchwood, or at least that was my first thought that came to mind.

(Oh god this is probably hilariously insensitive of me, sorry)

[elaran.livejournal.com]

oh LOL.

[tevriel.livejournal.com]

Torchwood is so not PC, if you factor in Tosh as Black Widow, as well as Tosh as Kind Of A Stereotype. Also, Torchwood's ability to address sex issues a lot means Torchwood is heavy on the Really, Do You Understand The Concept Of Consent, Like, At All? meta.

@Sophie:

I think you kind of have to let Doctor Who slide on a lot of the race-in-history stuff with Martha. Because, two things:

1) Kids' show

Yes, adults love it, and it's good for us too, but the BBC view Who as Family Viewing, which means they're not going to get into things that will be too questionable with children. Subtle gay and such they're getting away with, alongside some subtle allusions to racial tensions in The Shakespeare Code and The Family of Blood episodes, but serious racism? Not so much.

All aspects of history are seriously sanitised in Doctor Who, not just race relations.

2) The TARDIS loves us and wants us to be happy

The TARDIS, it is well-established, can enter people's brains. It translates. I could also see a justification for arguing that on some level it translates the existence of Martha Jones, black woman, for most people.

Mostly, though, I think it's the whole "intended to be appropriate for children" factor. If there were regular occurrences of Serious Racism happening in Who, even if presented as a Bad Thing, I wouldn't consider it appropriate viewing for children; "this is Martha, she happens to be black, but LOOK HOW AWESOME SHE IS" is something I'm more comfortable with.

As for where the Asians are: I blinked at this momentarily, and then I remembered I've been watching Japanese science fiction a lot lately, which kind of skews the Asian percentage in my recent TV experiences. (In that there were three white people I can recall in all the episodes of Kamen Rider Kabuto I've watched so far - and they were rude, stupid gaijin in one of the first episodes. It's weird being the minority getting portrayed offensively... but as I have the luxury of being accustomed to NOT being a minority, I don't really care.)

It may be my TV-influenced perception, but for Doctor Who, at least - I just don't get the impression there are that many (people we would call) Asians in England. (I have seen Indian-background-type people refer to themselves as Asian, but I *have* seen Indian-type people in Doctor Who.) Whereas their black population is substantial.

[greteldragon.livejournal.com]

Hm. That was intended as a fairly smartarse comment.

*ponders for a bit*

So is the idea of having an Asian person as the "Asian stereotype" (or a kind of one) better or worse then a show just not having Asian people at all? Especially when your not sure what the intent is.

[wolfhound.livejournal.com]

Im impressed I couldnt watch more than 2 minutes of kamen riders :)

[alias_sqbr]

Yes, adults love it, and it's good for us too, but the BBC view Who as Family Viewing, which means they're not going to get into things that will be too questionable with children. Subtle gay and such they're getting away with, alongside some subtle allusions to racial tensions in The Shakespeare Code and The Family of Blood episodes, but serious racism? Not so much.

All aspects of history are seriously sanitised in Doctor Who, not just race relations.

A certain amount of sanitisation, absolutely. All I want is, say, a bad guy underestimating her because she's black, or someone being slightly racist and then realising she's awesome and taking it back. And not all the time, just more than I got: the depiction in "Human Nature" was about right imo.

And the thing is they used to do this. I haven't watched much Old Who recently, but there was some attempt at deconstructing sexism in the 70s one I watched, and there's several examples given in one of the posts I linked to:
http://calapine.livejournal.com/373940.html?thread=5894068&format=light#t5894068
http://calapine.livejournal.com/373940.html?thread=5906868&format=light#t5906868

Also some examples of easy ways they could have dealt with race without making it a big deal, or depressing:
http://calapine.livejournal.com/373940.html?thread=5883316&format=light#t5883316
http://calapine.livejournal.com/373940.html?thread=5905588&format=light#t5905588

I've been watching Japanese science fiction a lot lately, which kind of skews the Asian percentage in my recent TV experiences

Heh, that doesn't count :)

Mm, I was mostly talking about Indians/Sri Lankans etc, since my in-laws are anglo-indians it's something I'm aware of.
I've seen some but there still don't seem to be that many. *checks Wikipedia* As I thought, there's more asians than people of african descent in London, yet from my admittedly subjective perception that wasn't the look of the show (and I would say the cast overall was more than 70% white, though as has been mentioned they were shooting in almost-entirely-white Wales)

EDIT: Also, I personally think it's vitally important that children be made aware of racism/sexism etc from the past (and present). In a sanitised, simplified, optimistic way, sure, but it's something they need to be aware of, or they're going to come to the "logical" conclusion that black people are just naturally poorer, and that women in the past liked not having any power, etc. I am am continuously grateful to my parents for teaching me about that stuff from a young age.

EDIT 2: Also, as a child, I was continuously annoyed at the terrible inaccuracies and whitewashing of history in things like Dr Who. Stuff like that is one of the reasons I decided all science fiction and fantasy was crap.

[haute-kitten.livejournal.com]

have you got torchwood yet?

[alias_sqbr]

I've seen season one, and am in the process of getting season 2.

[haute-kitten.livejournal.com]

i love it, more than dr who, which has only just strted to get good

[alias_sqbr]

The first episode of season 2 was certainly very promising :)

[haute-kitten.livejournal.com]

plus wait for the 4th season, slightly different

[wolfhound.livejournal.com]

I thought season three sucked arse in general except Human Nature/Family of Blood, Blink and the 11 and 12 whose names escape me

the finale with its literal deus ex machina paled badly compared to the lead up they got in 11 and 12.

Season 4 has been full of win and awesome so far and donna the less annoying version does probably fall into the fluffy kitten however doesnt take any crap from dr who

and s2 tw rocks my socks especially the awesome finale

[i-palimpsest.livejournal.com]

Plus Donna makes the hard decisions with him, doesn't just stand by and let him make them alone. She won my affection for that alone.

Fluffy kitten maybe, but with sharp little claws :)

[wolfhound.livejournal.com]

ooh yes with claws

[alias_sqbr]

I thought season three sucked arse in general except Human Nature/Family of Blood, Blink and the 11 and 12 whose names escape me

the finale with its literal deus ex machina paled badly compared to the lead up they got in 11 and 12.

My thoughts exactly: the final episode does gel with the previous ones, but is still really crap. The Dr as the avenging God whose power is created through prayer? Really?

[i-palimpsest.livejournal.com]

I jut put the whole thing down to family show - not meant to be so serious. I think if you (by you I mean general people) are looking for accuracy and realism in Doctor Who - you are quite possibly missing the point.

I was never keen on Martha, cause she just wasn't right for the Doctor, and didn't live up to any of my favorite companions. I liked her in Torchwood which goes to show she grew more by leaving him than being with him. Plus she spend a season whining about how she wasn't Rose. Which got boring very quickly. (Mind you even the Master pointed out that she was no Rose)

The whole thing with Martha's being a maid . . . I understand why people thought it was this horrible, horrible thing and racist as all get out. But really what else would the master have done? He had to lock up Jack and the Doctor because they had the knowledge to stop him. But for him it was all about domination. Of course they should be his servants. Everyone should. Yes it was about servitude and slavery but as that was his plans for the whole human race anyway. . . . it fits and is appropriate.

If he'd have white servants, esp to a British audience, it maybe wouldn't have had the impact that black servants had. When you consider that in Britain people are often proud of a family history in service.

So to me it was like you want them to address slavery etc. but when they use it to. . . of anything strengthen the point they are making the whole world implodes.

When Dr Who address things like that explicitly they use th Aliens to do it. Look at the Ood for example. Can you imagine the furor if they tried to do that replacing Ood with black people?

[alias_sqbr]

I've watched enough Old Skool Dr Who not to expect high quality or super realism (I would like it, but I don't expect it), but imo a lot (but not all) of the historical episodes have been under the already fairly low bar set by earlier Dr Who, at least when they try to be serious (straight silliness like the Shakespeare Code I can accept more) Also there's a difference between "badly written/silly" and "unethical" : It can be argued that the show doesn't have skeevy race issues, but I don't think it can be argued that it does have them, but that that's ok.

I wasn't expecting the Dr to treat Martha as well as Rose (True Love and all that), but he could have treated her as well as he treated, say, Donna or Astrid. I do feel a bit better about it now that I've seen the start of Season 4.

As a white australian I don't feel qualifed to talk about the whole maid thing in the right context, but afaict it's a bit like the women in refrigerators thing: it's not that anyone's saying male comic book authors think raping and killing women is a a good thing, but to them it's just a useful plot device to signal how evil a character is/make the male characters sad etc, while to female readers it's often deeply upsetting and alienating. Similarly, afaict seeing black characters forced to be maids is very upsetting and alienating to black people.

Can you imagine the furor if they tried to do that replacing Ood with black people?

Well, yes, if there was an apisode where the doctor encountered a race of black people who were treated as stupid slaves and thought that was fine and then those slaves turned evil and all had to be killed, I think people would have complained, and rightly so :P I found the episode plenty annoying as it was. (The next Ood episode was a lot better, though still flawed if you try to see it as an explicit metaphor for slavery. It was ok as scifi imo) In my opinion, if your slave metaphor becomes offensive if you imagine the slaves as black (or any other sort of) people then you're doing it wrong. But I have as Thing about the use of race metaphors in scfi.

[i-palimpsest.livejournal.com]

But part of that is a very americanized attitude to racism. American black people, aboriginal black people and English black people don't necessarily have the same experience of blackness.

e.g for an American black person Martha being a maid smacks of slavery, for an Australian Aboriginal it might bring up the stolen generation and missionary schools. These are not the same thing and bring with them a whole range of different emotional responses.

By assuming that English black people would experience the same feeling discounts their experience of blackness. Most black people in England are african immigrants slavery was never a widespread practice in England and there were only ever a very few English slaves. In addition the English relationship to service is very different to the American one.

To say that Martha being a maid is wrong because of slavery discounts any other experience of blackness and the culture of the country in which the programme is made. if you look at any discussion of race in terms of black/white on lj it is only ever discussed in American Slavery terms, which really is as racist as anything else as it disenfranchises anyone whose experience of blackness differs from that.

Even here in Australia we tend to discuss racism in terms of slavery when really we should be discussing it in terms of Aboriginality, and leave room for all experiences of blackness.

[alias_sqbr]

The thing is, even if we ignore the american POV and just focus on the opinions of the english (because I agree, we foreigners can't properly understand the context, though I think RTD might have been wise to remember americans watch the show too), afaict every single black english person I've heard speak up about this stuff found it offensive, as did a number of white english people, and the only english people who didn't think it was a problem were white.

Anyway: I agree that the african american experience does tend to become a template for discussions of racism online, which isn't always a good thing. On the other hand I think the reason this happens is that the history of the civil rights movement and the sheer weight of numbers (there are more african americans than australians of any ethnicity!) means theirs is the only POC voice loud enough not to be ignored, and a flawed model is better than having no POC perspective at all. The answer, in my opinion, is to make the effort to seek out and listen to local POC voices as well, not to ignore american ones (especially since in my experience the local POC often agree with the american ones on most points)

[i-palimpsest.livejournal.com]

Btw - Writing wise Season 3 was the weakest yet. Season 4 is the best yet. Not a single dud ep. Look out for Midnight. Thats a hell of a good ride.

[alias_sqbr]

I've certainly been enjoying it so far. Donna is awesome :)