Poll: Are you a feminist?

[alias_sqbr]

So, I've always had a certain amount of interest in women's rights, but always felt a bit put off by feminism for reasons I couldn't articulate. I eventually decided to dig a bit and either get over it or figure out what the problem was. In the process I've become convinced of two things:
(a) I am a feminist, and feminism still has a lot of important work left to do
(b) There are a bunch of things I don't really like about the feminist movement as it actually works

And I got curious about you guys experiences and identities.


If you're not sure what the definition of "feminist" is, well... afaict there isn't a completely agreed upon one, but here's a bunch, afaict the consensus is along the lines of "Thinking society deals with gender in a way that, on balance, harms women, and that this should be corrected".

[Poll #1169959]

I'm especially interested in women who don't identify as feminist: do you have an issue with feminism, or do you think it's ok but just don't see any particular need to identify yourself that way? Other people's povs (including mens!) are also welcome, though.

And yes, vegetus, this does give you leave to rant a bit :) Though I would remind everyone to be civil, openminded, and tolerant. Keep in mind that we have some very different POVs here, any one of which will probably strike at least one person as Wrong And Dumb. Please take any narky arguments outside and try not to start any!

As for myself, well, you can see my (mixed) opinions on this lj. ithiliana's post Racism Imbroglios, White Feminist Bloggers, RWOC, and deja vu inspired me to make this poll, I particularly liked the line:

Within feminist discourse sisterhood became simultaneously an unquestioned assumption, an unexamined bond, and a mode of controlling behavior and containing difference.

Comments

[alias_sqbr]

Yeah, I'm a bit ambivalent about affirmative action etc for the few jobs where the (mostly fairly irrelevant) differences between men and women come up. Of course, we're still unpacking the differences between biology and sociology so it's hard to tell which ones they are ie. is it biology that means men dominate the hard sciences and women are starting dominate the soft ones? 20 years ago people said it men would always dominate all the sciences for biological reasons. And even if biology does mean women are statistically less likely to be suited for a job, that doesn't mean we shouldn't fight against sexism against those women who are qualified.

Then again, afaict feminists are more likely to complain about positions of power like CEOs and polititians, which I'm going to assume you agree women are not biologically incapable of.

the number one oppressor of women in western society is other women.

If feminism was just about picking on men you might have a counterargument there, but it's about fighting sexism. Sexism from women is still sexism.

And anyway, most (but not all) of the sexism I've experienced has been from men, so nerr :P

[greyreviews.livejournal.com]

Actually I would argue that whilst women make better heads of state, they dont make better CEOs or politicians. However, that is a massive essay length argument with pages of statistical analysis of psychological profiles both of individuals and of sociological responses to individuals, which could then be counter argued that those sociological responses are due to a historically patriarchal society.... etc etc.

Also whilst most direct sexism you have experienced has been from men. "Girls can't do math" right? I would wager that it is far outweighed by the amount of passive sexism you and all other women are subjected to on a daily basis. Even if we ignore the sexism of womens magazines, how many cleaning product advertisements have you seen featuring a man? Yes this works both ways, how many drink driving ads do you see featuring women? However im sure you agree two wrongs don't make a right.

I would contend the above passive sexism is far more damaging to both genders than any idiot who says you cant do science because you have a vagina or that im a fag for working in a library.

Also whilst I am aware that many of the charges laid against feminism do not apply to you, I think you would find the Myth of Male Power by Warren Farrell quite an interesting read. If you cant get a copy (its available through the public library system :-) the following link has a a large portion of it in point form.

http://www.warrenfarrell.org/TheBook/index.html

Its a good read and not at all polemic, he is actually a big supporter of feminism (a variant close to the views you seem to hold) himself.

[alias_sqbr]

From the sound of it I would disagree with a lot, but not all of that book. Certainly I do think there's not much to be acheived by blaming/hating men, you didn't choose to be born male and sexism hurts you too in a different way. I think there totally needs to be good strong non-sexist analysis of the harmful ways our society treats men. But I also think men do have more (but not total) power in our society.

Like I said, in my view it doesn't really matter which gender is more sexist: the issue is that the sexism exists at all.

But to argue with your point anyway...yes I have had women give me (subtextual) crap for being too fat, or too unfashionable, or whatever. I've had men give me crap for that too (though not as much) Possibly it's partly becuase I don't care about that stuff so much, and have the sort of personality which attracts chauvanistically "old fashioned" men, but I have experienced LOTS more passive sexism from men.

I've had several men think I owe them *cough* something because they like me, which has made me paranoid about being friendly.

I'm continuously having my intelligence and skills underestimated.

Hmm. Thinking about it is all a bit distressing. Just..trust me.

[greyreviews.livejournal.com]

Ok, well i will stop my line of argument as im not interested in distressing you.
Silly emotional woman :-p

However i am quite surprised by:

"I've had several men think I owe them *cough* something because they like me, which has made me paranoid about being friendly."

Not that there are such jerk-off men, but rather that you consider yourself paranoid about being friendly. You hide it well (or always happen to feel safe in the limited situations i have observed you) as i would consider you one of the generally friendlier people i know.

[alias_sqbr]

*swoons girlishly*

Though I actually inherited the "freak out and shut down at emotionally intense crap" side of my personality from my father :P

Not that there are such jerk-off men, but rather that you consider yourself paranoid about being friendly. You hide it well (or always happen to feel safe in the limited situations i have observed you) as i would consider you one of the generally friendlier people i know.

Oh, I'm not paranoid about being friendly with everyone, just the sort of overbearing self absorbed chauvanists who I used to always be blandly, nonthreateningly pleasant to (and who see bland nonthreatening pleasantness as the sign of a perfect women) Overall I'm figuring out how to be friendly to people without finding myself surrounded by annoying prats who think "Finally! Someone who'll listen to me!", but the ones who are just boring are much easier to put up with.