alias_sqbr | Racism and the sff scene

So, it's International blog about racism week.

I've never gotten around to joining in before (though I have posted about
racism at odd intervals) but as it happens have been heading towards
posting about this sort of stuff for a while.

So, two small and hopefully uncontroversial questions to start with:

Question 1: There's a lot of interesting science fictiony ideas involving
race, as well as questions about the racial subtexts to fandom itself. I
personally find these interesting, and have recently noticed there isn¡¦t
a lot of that sort of thing discussed at Swancon.

Am I just missing it and it is actually there? Are other people interested
or is it just me? I'd think of running some myself but I'm an ignorant
white science major who hasn't run many panels so I'd probably mess it
up horribly :)

Question 2: Something I've noticed recently and Do Not Like are racist
undertones in fandom, especially amongst the younger unisfans. What are
other people's experiences? Is it getting worse or am I just being an "In
my day.." old guard, or possibly only now losing some of the blindness of
white privilege? What's it like being a not-white fan in such a
blindingly pasty demographic? Any different to the regular grind of
Australian society?

I'm mostly interested in local west Australian fandom (since I've mostly
heard about online fandom) but stuff about the internet or international
fandom is cool too. And those less pasty than myself are under no
obligation to talk about such a loaded topic if they'd rather not!

May post about my own experiences when I'm not ill (wrote this yesterday, naively thinking I'd be able to proofread before posting tonight) Will suck at responding for a while but didn't want to miss the week since I was so close!

Since it seems unfortunately necessary to say: if someone says they have a
different experience to you that doesn't mean they assume you're stupid
or a liar, and nor should you assume that about them. Also:

IMPORTANT NOTE: off topic, ranty or flamey replies go here.

Flat | Top-Level Comments Only

I hesitate to put myself forward, since I am slightly white than white, bu what about a panel next Swancon on race in SF&F?

Absolutely. The way I see it a less-than-perfect panel on race is better than none, if only to inspire others to do it better :)

especially amongst the younger unisfans

Do you think this is a youth culture-y thing? Despite supposedly growing up in more 'tolerant' times than us, I've noticed it's suddenly 'in' to be as bigoted as possible if you're a teenager/just out of teenage-hood. (or maybe it's just my school and area I live in)

It may depend on area, I know it was a LOT more accepted at my working class public primary school than my snooty private highschool.
I was just thinking the other day how immersed I was in racist jokes about asians as a kid and didn't really notice. (The ones about aborigines I noticed a bit more since there tended to be actual aborigines around to hear them, albeit not generally intended as a particular target)

I mean, people in highschool were still bigoted, just not as loudly and cheerfully. They were also all girls, so tended to be less loud in general.

purrdence and i did a panel this year about languages other than english in english language texts, and how that concept is used as an other (sometimes in lieu of, and sometimes to supplement, race). i would ask, where were you?! but i seem to recall you being scheduled opposite us.

IT'S A CONSPIRACY

But, yes, I remember noticing your panel now, thinking "Sounds awesome but better not get attached to the idea, since I can't go" then focussing on my own panel.

Worldcon 2005 in Glasgow featured a whole heap of panels examining racism, post-colonialism, refugees, and 'the other' in SF. Some really great panel ideas, sadly often brought crashing down by the overwhelmingly white middle-aged and middle-class (and often male) voices in the audience.

Swancon 2008 is blessed by having two guests who examine similar themes in very thoughtful ways in their writing - Ken McLeod and Glenda Larke. I'm gonna be leaning on Dave to get some thought-provoking panels in the program.

That's a really good point, I just finished Glenda larke's "Isle of Glory" trilogy and enjoyed the interesting ways it explored the interactions of race and culture (with an entirely white cast, but I think that was actually neccesary so as to not impede multiple layers of metaphor)

The fact that panels could easily be overwhelmed by the predjudices of the audience occured to me after posting, not sure what can be done apart from a strong moderator (not me :)) I guess one could make it part of Gynacon but that seems a bit...I don't know. Exclusionary or something.

A few books that I think would be interesting to discuss in relation to the topic are

1. Elantris by Brian Sanderson - Fantasy. Contains racial (as in 'distinguished by physical traits') as well as cultural and religious cast divisions.
2. Lt. Leary series by David Drake - Science Fiction. Not really my cup of tea but contains definite racial and class tension as well as overt racism on the part of the protagonist(s).
3. The Diamond Age by Neil Stephenson - Science Fiction. Slightly off the beaten path and more about nationality and culture than race as traditionally defined, it raises the question of what happens when race and culture can be self selected.
4. Crown of Slaves by David Weber - Science Fiction. About genetic slavery, contains characters who have been genetically altered to perform specific tasks and the social and political problems that creates.

Forgot one

5. Evergence Trilogy by Sean WIlliams and Shane Dix - Science Fiction. For another take on the Nietzsche Übermensch idea

Ooh, thanks. More food for thought is always good. Maybe you should run a panel :D (it's certainly more your area of expertise)

If I'm at Swancon next year and you volunteer to be on the panel with me, sure.

And now let's introduce our panelists. First,

nico_wolfwood, who has a degre in sociology, was a representative at a conference on reconciliation, is from a country with very different racial politics to australia and has first hand experience with being both in the racial majority and the racial minority.
Second we have

alias_sqbr. She... dislikes racism. A lot.

But sure, why not :)

LOL. I think you're underestimating your own contributions. I'm attempting to get my husband to be on the panel too (D&D as a fantasy example within which race is institutionalised in order to more easily typify characters) but he's shy... :)

Well..I did threaten an annoying younger unisfan with physical violence if he didn't stop making anti semetic remarks, and afaict that actually shut him up, at least when I'm around :)

I am pretty scary after all. Maybe I should be moderator, keep everyone in line with strict discipline and my natural imposingness.

lol :)

Ooohh! Scary Sophie!

Also - is imposingness even a word?

YES!!!

I say with much imposingness

re-reading this comment thread, I find it vaguely ironic that I wasn't on your racism panel this year...

I suggested you! It all went a bit pear shaped really.

My thesis was originally titled 'race in SF and fantasy' (although it's wandered a bit since then), so you're definitely not the only one interested :P

*points to reply to

nico_wolfwood above* :)

You should be on a Swancon panel too. Sophie and I can sit in the audience and say 'racisim is bad... ok?'

Sounds good to me :)

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